Mick Mulvaney think President Trump wants $5.7 billion.

Mick Mulvaney explained this morning that Trump was asking for $5.7 billion.

Watch below:

ROBERTS: All right. So, the president was asking for $5.7 billion. The vice president took the Congress day after Christmas and offer -- I think it was $2.4 billion. Are you stuck on the 5.7 or will you take less than that?

MULVANEY: I think the president wants his $5.7 billion. Keep in mind, why is that number? It's not a number that's made up. It's what the experts have told him. He's listened to DHS.

I have been on the meetings. He's listened to CBP. He's listened to ICE.

We have identified the top 17 highest priorities in terms of where we can put up barriers to discourage people from crossing the border illegally. It's about 243 miles. That's what driving this discussion. It's not a made a magical number of $5.7 billion. It's the wall, where we need it the most and where we need it the quickest. That's what driving this.

So, this not something where the president is married to a number, he is married to border security which is the right thing for the president of the United States to do.

ROBERTS: It's not lost on me that you shrewdly ducked my question. Will he take less than 5.7 in a negotiation?

MULVANEY: Oh, I wasn't ducking your question.

(LAUGHTER)

MULVANEY: Just I wasn't negotiating with you on TV. You know I never do that.

ROBERTS: But will -- is he prepared to take less than the 5.7? I mean, you were willing to take 2.6 going into Christmas, there was the offer of 2.4. I mean, clearly, he is not hard and fast on that number.

MULVANEY: Again, if I don't answer your question, I don't mean to dodge. Look, let's look at this way. The president has all ready gone to the Democrats and said, look, it's not a 2,000-mile sea to shining sea wall. It's not a giant 30-foot concrete barrier that so many Democrats seem to have difficulty with.

He even put DACA and TPS on the table at some point during this process and they refused to even engage. So I think the better question is, what are the Democrats willing to do?

The president from the very beginning here actually has been the one willing to negotiate. He was the one staying in Washington, D.C., when Nancy went to Hawaii. He's the one who stayed in D.C. when Democrats all went down to Puerto Rico. He was in D.C., which he tried to leave to go to Europe and the Middle East last week.

He wants to negotiate on the deal. The Democrat leadership simply refused to take him up on that.

ROBERTS: It is fortuitous that we have West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin coming up, Mick, because we will be able to ask a question about what Democrats plan to do.

Would you recommend another shut down to the president if there's no deal by February the 15th?

MULVANEY: Look, we look at it going backwards. What do we need to protect the country? And we need border security and that includes a barrier. Keep in mind, lost in all this other request that we made for things like more technology and improving ports of entry, all of the things that go into the --

ROBERTS: But would you recommend he shut down the government again?

MULVANEY: No one wants the government shutdown, John. It's not a desired end, but when the president vetoes a bill that is put in front of him on a spending package, sometimes that has the effect of shutting the government down. We don't go into this trying to shut the government down.

ROBERTS: He also threatened an emergency declaration and use money that's already appropriated to build the wall. OMB, which you used to head and still officially do, has been looking around for pots of money.

How much money did you find to build a wall?

MULVANEY: More than $5.7 billion. The president told us several months ago to try to find money in every nook and cranny, he told every member of the cabinet to do the exact same. OMB has been working on this for several months now and there's a lot more than a $5.7 billion.

It's better, John, to get it through legislation. That's the right way to do it, but at the end of the day, the president is going to secure the border one way or another.

ROBERTS: So, when the president comes to you and says, Mick, should I declare an emergency if you don't money for a wall and you don't want to shut down the government, would you recommend he'd do that? Because it would certainly almost immediately be adjoined by the courts and most likely a court in the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit of Appeals, and that could be playing his last card.

MULVANEY: We are just as aware of all of those contingencies as you just laid out as everybody else's, so there is ways we can try to mitigate those risks. We certainly will. There were some pots of money that are easier to get to than to others.

So, again, this is not something we are shooting off at the hip. We've been working on this for months.

We have been hoping for months to do it through legislation with Democrats because that's the right way for the government to function, but the end of the day, the president's commitment is to defend the nation and he will do it either with or without Congress.

ROBERTS: The $5.7 billion, you want to build about 170 miles of border wall through Texas. One thing I find curious that nobody's talking about here is that in most places along the Rio Grande, you can't build a fence in the floodplain of the Rio Grande. So, you have to build it in land, anywhere from a couple of hundred yards, to in some places a mile, which might help you in interdicting drugs and human trafficking, the people who don't want to get caught.

But for all of those migrants, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, the Northern Triangle countries, they can still even with a border barrier get feet on U.S. soil and their goal is to be apprehended by the border patrol and get in the system.

So, how would building a barrier in Texas affect this problem of illegal immigration of the president talks about each and every day?

MULVANEY: That goes back to the larger discussion about border security. Yes, there is a barrier. Yes, there's technology and a part that sometimes gets forgotten about and something the president has talked about many, many times, which is to change our laws because you're absolutely right. If the border -- if the wall -- if the barrier is back one foot from the border and someone can get one foot on our soil depending on what country they're from, they can claim asylum and stay here almost indefinitely.

It's why some of the other things we've done that deal was negotiating with Mexico to allow folks who are claiming asylum here to have to go back to Mexico to wait while their asylum is being adjudicated. That's been a major improvement that I don't think has gotten the attention it deserves, but it does raise -- your point does raise the larger picture that we need to change the laws.

That's part and parcel of this comprehensive border security concept. It is not just about a barrier. It is not just about technology, it's about changing the laws that right now act as this giant poll.

We encourage people to come here from other countries to enter the country illegally because of the way our laws are structured and those need to be fixed as well as part of the larger national security package.

ROBERTS: We should also point out, though, that this remain in Mexico policy right now only applies to people who are entering from a port of entry, not people who cross the border illegally.

I got to ask you quickly before we go because time is running short. Venezuela, is the U.S. ruling out military action if Maduro refuses to cede leadership?

MULVANEY: I don't think any president of any party who is doing his or her job would be doing the job properly if they took anything off the table. So, I think the president of the United States is looking at this extraordinarily closely.

I can tell you, without giving away anything that shouldn't, that we are in constant communication with the secretary of state, constant communication with the other parts of the federal government to find out what's going on on the ground down there, making sure that our people and our property is safe down there. And also to make sure that we can do everything we can to encourage the Maduro government, which we consider to be illegitimate, to leave. And to back the new national assembly leadership that declared this week.

So, it's a very serious situation. The president takes it very seriously and I think it's fair to say that no options are off the table.

ROBERTS: We'll keep watching that.

Mick, thanks for taking time away from your family this weekend to be with us. Really appreciate it.

MULVANEY: Thanks, John.

ROBERTS: Up next, can Congress strike a deal on border security and avoid to return to where all this began with a government shutdown? Two key lawmakers from both sides of the aisle join us next.