CNN host Don Lemon got into a heated argument with a counter-terrorism expert over whether the evidence presented in the January 6 committee hearings showed the Justice Department should charge former President Trump with conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results.
Reacting
to Thursday's hearing, Lemon suggested the legal case could be made
that Trump was "willing to accept violence to stay in power." Former CIA
analyst Philip Mudd immediately shot that notion down.
"Heck no," Mudd began. The CNN analyst argued the Department of Justice couldn’t win a conspiracy case against the former president because his motives couldn't be proven in court.
"That's
a really difficult case to prove. Not only what happened but what
people were thinking when they went down the path that happened on
January 6th. Very difficult to prove. That's going to take a lot of
people and millions of dollars to pursue," he began.
Mudd noted that Attorney General Merrick Garland would be perceived
as having "partisan, political" motivations if the DOJ lost. "The risk
of losing that case is high. I wouldn't pursue it if I were the Attorney
General," he said.
But Lemon kept pushing the idea as viable, resulting in a lengthy and heated debate.
Mudd
was adamant that the president could argue his advisers told him that
he won the election, so it wasn’t a "conspiracy," which Lemon disagreed
with. "None of his advisers told him that he won!" Lemon said. "So on
this one, you’re wrong," he scolded Mudd.
"No, Don, you’re wrong, you’re wrong!" the CNN analyst shot back as the pair balked at one another's arguments.
"Don't you think the defense can find witnesses to say that the president thought he won [the election]?" Mudd asked Lemon.
Lemon pushed back on Mudd's assertion, arguing that would've already happened in previous lawsuits related to the 2020 election.
"You're not making sense right now, Phil," Lemon told Mudd, who insisted Lemon had "lost" the argument.
Video Transcript
DON LEMON: You're not hearing what I'm saying.
PHIL MUDD: I'm hearing you.
DON LEMON:
Every single person who testified, his advisors told him-- and I'm not
saying you're wrong. I'm saying on this one, every advisor-- on this
one, you're wrong. Every single advisor told him that he lost.
PHIL MUDD: No, you're wrong!
DON LEMON: The only people who told--
PHIL MUDD: No, Don!
DON LEMON: The only people who told him that he won--
PHIL MUDD: You're wrong!
KYLIE MAR:
On "Don Lemon Tonight" Thursday, Lemon clashed with former CIA official
and CNN analyst Phil Mudd over whether or not former President Donald
Trump actually believed what he was saying about the election being
stolen or whether he knowingly took part in a conspiracy.
Multiple
advisors to the former President have testified to the January 6
committee that they told Trump he had legitimately lost the election.
Mudd argued that Trump's knowledge of guilt would never hold up in
court.
DON LEMON: You said that the president's advisors told him that he won. Not one--
PHIL MUDD: Correct.
DON LEMON: --of the president's advisors told him he won.
PHIL MUDD: I don't buy it. I'm going to tell you, defense attorneys are going to find people--
DON LEMON: OK.
PHIL MUDD: --who say the president thought he won.
DON LEMON: Fine, OK.
PHIL MUDD: Let's go, Don. Come on.
KYLIE MAR:
Lemon argued that the dozens of court cases Trump's legal team lost
while attempting to prove voter fraud should be sufficient evidence that
the former president knew he lost the election.
DON LEMON:
When he had 60 different court cases, there is no way in hell that he
thought that he won, and no one with any sense told him that he won.
You're not making sense. I'm sorry. You're not making sense right now,
Phil.
PHIL MUDD: All right. You lose.
DON LEMON: OK.
PHIL MUDD: But go ahead.
KYLIE MAR:
But Mudd believes that Trump's advisors who testified to the committee
that he lost the election told him something different at the time.
PHIL MUDD: Come on!
DON LEMON: I'm asking you to tell me--
PHIL MUDD: You're going--
DON LEMON: --one person who's-- one advisor, legitimate advisor, who testified to the committee, and they told them--
PHIL MUDD: Well, because--
DON LEMON: --that Donald Trump won.
PHIL MUDD: Because they told the committee something different than they told the president!
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